How You Can Encourage Discipline in Marriage

Part of my goal in this ministry is to help spread the word about how good and useful that discipline is in marriage. Along with this naturally comes the value of the man’s authority, and everything else that makes a marriage. I want more couples to have happy and harmonious marriages which last for life. I also want to see larger cultural change. That includes more of a normalcy for spanking, but also the legal legitimacy of the man’s headship. His headship is not a game. It’s not based on his personality. His headship is given by God, and written in his nature, and society should legally recognize it.

I know many of the readers here believe strongly in some of those goals, if not all of them. They also want to see more and better marriages. They want to see less conflict in marriage and less divorce. They want to see men respected and women behaving themselves. They’d be very happy if more ladies out there were getting the spanking they both need and deserve. Surely a few readers would also appreciate a political push to recognize once again that a wife is under her husband’s authority, just as it recognizes that children are under their parents’ authority. Marriage is not a mere partnership. It is a real unity with a purpose and a structure. I’m not the only one who understands that.

I’d like to make a few suggestions here in how you can aid in reaching our goals. Don’t be divisive if you don’t believe in all of them. Simply contribute. There are simple things that you and I can do to spread the good news. Our heart should motivate us to actions.

Firstly, the online world is a great public forum. If you wish to inform people about male headship or about discipline, you can go online, anonymously if necessary, and post good links to articles, as well as some videos. You can also start your own website, be it informative, or a personal blog for those of you who practice discipline. You don’t need to be updating it constantly, just stay active and answer any comments or e-mails you receive. It doesn’t require that much time, nor does it have to be as involved as what I do. 

If you do not have the time to start your own blog, then definitely share this material here at Spank Your Wife, and share other material which you find online. Participate in the comments section to encourage and inform people. Get behind teachers who are putting out the message to help their ministry, and get others to know them. If you possess technical talents, you can volunteer those talents to help at their websites as well. I have had one volunteer who helped me change over from my previous website to this one, and I could not have done it without him, unless I paid someone to do it. You may have marketing skills which would be valuable as well and which would spread such blogs to a wider audience.

Teaching and defending marital spanking can also be done on online forums. Not all forums allow this, but some will. You can post a description of the topic. You can also go to forums where it is being criticized and respond to the objections. I do some of this, actively searching out articles on domestic discipline, posting comments, and occasionally responding to criticisms. It creates a voice, and it gets people used to hearing about the topic. In a culture which has tried to get all of society used to hearing about the most despicable acts of immorality, it is a much better alternative to get people used to hearing about what should be normal, which is the man’s headship, and loving correction of his wife. They should not be able to sweep it under the rug. It should be bright and visible for all to see, like it or not.

While few in the spanking community do it, sharing with friends or family openly about wife spanking can be even more helpful. I realize it takes a risk, since the practice is frowned upon, but if you want to bring something good out in the open, a face-to-face talk is better than online discourse. I’ve only shared what I do with two friends, although I assume others have figured it out. In the future I may share with more. I’m sure there are some of you much bolder than I am, and you could talk about it with your own family and friends. Not everyone is as madly against it as one sometimes imagines, and many will respect your views and your way of life. That’s just a part of bringing discipline to the public forum and the culture. 

While the specific topic I write about is wife spanking, it is part and parcel of marriage itself. Promoting traditional marriage through similar means will help shift the culture in the right direction, and in a direction that is more capable of fairly processing the topic of discipline in marriage. In the context of real authority, discipline makes much sense. Outside of that context, it makes less sense, other than as a game. Marriage includes authority, mutual love, a lifelong bond, intimacy, and bearing children. Do what you can to promote real marriage, and you prime the culture to hear more good news.

As in other truths, the best way to spread it is to live it yourself. If you want a loving world, love others. If you want a fair world, be fair to others. If you want more stable traditional marriage, in which spanking is accepted, then get married and live it. Have a rightly ordered marriage, and use discipline to keep harmony. Have a well behaved and respectful lady of the house. Have a man who can manage her easily, and without getting mad. The example of the peace in your home, the relationship between husband and wife, and especially the example for the children will better the world around you. Don’t doubt that. The image and peace you provide is good for men to see, and they will admire it. They may take it on themselves to follow that model, and conform themselves to it. It is naturally attractive to see a godly family, its natural order and its mutual love. There is peace. The is strength and beauty. Your family will be a way to bring good things into this corrupt world. Your family is among the best examples there is, and if you are Christian, it is among the strongest and deepest witnesses of Christ. People come to faith because of the family. Pass your values along to your children, and bring forth as many children as the Creator allows you, children who will also respect the roles of men and women, and who respect male headship.

The political level should also be a goal. While it’s not so easy for the average person to operate on that level, the average person can run for office, and can also propose or oppose various legislative bills. One goal to have on the political level is naturally the restoring of legal headship of the man of the family. It should be known to all that the head of the home is the male, and that he is the one to turn to for the final decision. It should be legally respected that he can overrule his wife, and if done promptly, can cancel and purchases or contracts she has made. He is the one who makes the financial decisions, unless he has specifically said his wife can. Along with that legal authority, comes the right to correct his wife. An end to the criminalization of marital discipline will in the long run create more and longer lasting marriages. It is a man’s right and responsibility to discipline his wife. Naturally, as with the government, there need to be certain limits to what amounts to just punishment, and outrageous violent behavior should not be permitted. However, a simple hide tanning needs to be legal punishment. It will solve many problems in marriages. Another legal goal to restore marriage is the push to end easy divorce laws. No-fault divorce needs to end. The divorce process should not be quick. Fair treatment of men also needs to be standard in case that divorce happens, from fair sharing of time with children, to an end to ripping off men financially in divorce. Central though, in my opinion, is the goal of the man’s legal authority as head of his wife. Get that right, and many other things will fall into place.

Corporal punishment in general should be a political goal. That means seeking to end any prohibitions on spanking children that certain states have; with it an end to prohibiting it in schools or foster homes. Political action also means proposing its use as a civil punishment, as was done for thousands of years in cultures across the globe, including the most advance civilizations. Whipping is not bad. It is good when it’s appropriate, as it is for many crimes. The Bible endorses the flogging of criminals, and many Christian societies have used it as a civil punishment. A whipping is superior to locking a criminal in a box with dangerous violent offenders who viciously abuse him. It is better than spending years locked up, apart from family, often being divorced during that time, and unable to work. Whipping can be a good deterrent for certain offenses, although the more severe offenses deserve much harsher treatment, included capital punishment in some cases. If people see and understand that whipping is not some bad dogmatically, they will process spanking in marriage with more wisdom and understanding.

I believe that gives you some tools to spread this useful practice. Pick one of them, or more, or all, and sow seeds in the world around you. That can be done online, in answering questions and leaving commentary. It can be done through your own website and writing, or through assisting others. You can make larger societal change through public political action which will respect the man’s headship role in marriage, and which will respect corporal punishment in general. Perhaps most importantly, respect it in your own home, along with everything which makes a marriage, so the goodness of your family is a light to the world. A rightly ordered marriage, with the man leading, ought to be very common and be understood to be the norm. Ultimately there is no reason why we cannot see that, if we are informed and take action. I hope that you are inspired to do so. A strong, happy family will inspire others to see the truth.

NOTE: I will follow this with one article on advice in starting your own discipline website, since this is a related topic.


Comments

29 responses to “How You Can Encourage Discipline in Marriage”

  1. ALifeSurrendered Avatar
    ALifeSurrendered

    I read this article to my husband this morning. He didn’t say much, but he listened to me while I read it to him. Very interesting read, and one I certainly agree with.

    I find myself hearing some women speak or seeing how they act and saying, “Man, she needs a spanking!”

    I guess most of us ladies need one once in a while, at least.

    1. Hello Surrendered, I’m glad your husband had a chance to hear it. There are real practical steps we can take to bring better values to society, and I believe the article offers some steps forward. Many problems would be quickly removed if women were getting the spankings that they need and deserve. It would help with the attitude and the pride. There are too many passive men, unfortunately. I agree, nearly any woman needs one, at least from time to time.

  2. Wow, Aron! This is a brave, bold vision for our world. You have done so much to open hearts and minds to the peaceful beauty of this way of life, and this article is a call to action. I’m truly honored to serve as an example of how one might go out there and “live it.” I think you know that I like to imagine a world in which you are our church pastor, or maybe the town mayor, openly promoting Christian marriage as the cornerstone of our society, and encouraging marital discipline as an alternative to divorce. A return to male authority would have such a stabilizing influence on our culture, leading to happier wives and more well-behaved children.

    I can’t speak to political or civil policies, but I can say that I am a much happier woman under my husband’s God-given authority, which in our home includes discipline. I’m a better wife and mother, more emotionally stable, and less prone to anger and resentment. It saddens me that I can’t speak openly to my friends about this when they are tense, emotional, and short with their husbands, and just so clearly in need of a sound spanking. They argue with their husbands, cry, and take days to fully make-up, without quite letting go of all of their resentment. They are sweet, wonderful, godly women, but they desperately need their man to take charge of them, and they have no idea that a lack of leadership is the source of the slight but persistent dissatisfaction they’re experiencing. We talk about books like The Respect Dare and have tried to embrace the feminine homemaking skills that have fallen out of fashion, but it’s so clear to me that they just want to be taken in hand by their man. To see him stand up to them and put them firmly in their place. I may be biased, but I think every woman would be well-served by a hard spanking from her husband every now and then, if not more often. Not happier then, in that moment, but in the days that follow. Like that scene in Gone with the Wind, when Rhett had had enough and hauled Scarlett off to the bedroom. I always thought a spanking might have been part of what happened off-screen, and yet she was smiling and singing to herself the next morning, happier than she’d been in months.

    My husband has also had to bite his tongue when hearing friends describe trouble with a wife or girlfriend, arguments that he knows could have easily been put to rest by a trip over his friends’ knee. Right now, the risk to us of sharing in person is too great. I hope that might change.

    Here our talk is often focused on the fact of spanking itself, but it’s the marriage that leads to joy and happiness. Discipline is just the glue that holds it together, reinforcing the hierarchy of a man over his wife that leads to lasting harmony. I’m so thankful that God led me here to your blog, which helped me to see my desires as a normal and natural part of womanhood and a healthy marriage. And I am most thankful for my husband, who has not only lovingly cherished me as his bride, but has never hesitated to stand up to me and set me straight every time it’s been called for. He is my husband and leader, and I am his much-loved, well-spanked, and easily managed wife.

    1. I am glad you appreciated the article and the ideas it offers, Sophia. Your devotion to your husband, along with your respect, is a good example to others. It truly is saddening to see the destruction coming to marriages, when the solution is right before them. Spanking is indeed a much better option to misery and divorce. I know you and your husband will continue to enjoy the fruit of peace in your marriage.

      1. Sophia Avatar

        Thank you, Aron, for all that you do.

        1. You’re welcome. I’m very honored that you value my work.

    2. ALifeSurrendered Avatar
      ALifeSurrendered

      I smiled while reading your comment, Sophia. I found this blog back when it was still a Word press blog. I was powerfully drawn to the idea of marital discipline, so much so that I literally searched “Spanking your wife.” That led me to domestic discipline, particularly the word press version of this blog, back in 2020. I didn’t feel the draw toward the BDSM kink world. What I wanted, even needed, was discipline in marriage. My husband doesn’t want to do discipline, at least he hasn’t yet, but I feel the draw to the need for it, even so.

      When the original blog was taken down, I was quite sad, but even so, back in July of last year, I decided to Google it again, in hopes it would be back. I was thrilled to see that a better version was up, on its own website, with NEW articles available. I’ve read all of them to date, and even though my husband has listened to me read a few to him but hasn’t decided to implement discipline, I think the site has improved me, and to some extent, him, as well.

      Resources like this are infinitely valuable. And I’m grateful to Aron and to others who have put up this type of information. It’s good for marriage and society!

      1. Sophia Avatar

        Surrendered, I’m so happy that your search has brought you back here, and that you continue to pursue your interest in this way of life. A submissive, obedient, and respectful wife must accept her husband’s decisions, as he has the God-given authority to rule her in all things. Having said that, I know how hard it can be to feel you need something that your husband is hesitant to provide. As a man, he must find his own way, and your certainty alone is not enough to convince him. He must see for himself that his authority requires consequences to fully enforce. It is good that he listens to you, and allows you to read some of the articles to him. Continue to share your honest thoughts with him. Tell him how much you want to be obedient and pliable in his hands. When you fail to meet his expectations, tell him how you think discipline might help you to behave better in the future. Respectfully and humbly, offer yourself up for his punishment. Finally, be patient. Our culture makes it difficult for men to be the leaders they were born to be, and he may have a lot of negative biases to let go of. I’m curious. Does he set rules for you? Exercise his headship in other ways? Apply non-physical consequences? That may be a good place to start. As his woman, you can help him to feel more like the real man he wants to be.

        1. ALifeSurrendered Avatar
          ALifeSurrendered

          Hi Sophia,

          No, he doesn’t really set rules for me, nor consequences. As I’ve explained elsewhere, on those rare occasions when I upset him, he usually gets angry, makes it very clear he’s angry, then he silent and withdrawn until he gets over being upset. That bothers me on a soul deep level, and I wish he would rein me in BEFORE it gets to that point, with physical correction if needed.

          I would be more than willing to take correction if it came to that. And there have been several times lately where I’ve said, in passing, after I’ve said something I shouldn’t have, “I deserve a spanking for that.” He didn’t answer, so I don’t know what he’s thinking.

          That’s my biggest problem, an unruly mouth, and although I strive daily to control myself and always be respectful, sometimes I know my speech was disrespectful. When I know that, I carry a sense of shame and guilt that’s hard to let go of, something I know would be gone if he simply tanned my hide. I know it would involve things remarkably, over time.

          He grew up in a home in which his mother was the undisputed leader, and his father wasn’t a fighter, so he did what he was told. My husband is more like his mother, in that he will not obey me, but I feel like he is hesitant to take control and truly LEAD. I know he doesn’t want to hurt me.

          However, a week or two ago we were talking about something and I said something about sometimes a few bruises on the backside are good for the soul, and he said, as he walked out of the bedroom, “you can spank someone without leaving bruises.” I wasn’t particularly sure what to make of that statement. Maybe he’s considering what I’m asking. Maybe he’s not. I just don’t know.

          1. unsure67 Avatar
            unsure67

            Hello Surrendered, I know this is hard for you, but I wish to offer some outside perspective so you don’t carry such weight in your heart constantly. While shame is a good thing, it’s good when it’s carried momentarily, when the feeling is strong and makes you want to be better. When you want to shed your old self and become a new woman. This is a driving factor for many Christians who are made anew under God.

            I want to tell you, that sometimes simple words aren’t enough to convey the need. I’m sure he’s considering it, but maybe he hasn’t seen the opportunity, or your body language isn’t quite there yet.

            One thing I would suggest, that it would likely be a test to the pride, it’s to kneel before him and apologize, show him physically how willing you are and how much you need this. That you want to be in his good graces, and that you hate the distance, that you want to be polished by him.

            You can explain that you hate when he’s apart from you, even if it’s emotionally, that you’d much rather be punished by his belt, than his distance. You can point out as well, that to you, one is a much crueler punishment, that feeds a cycle of hurt, because your behavior doesn’t get better, and because his distance makes you feel disconnected, never truly learning. And that while you understand that you mess up and hurt him, that you need him to take your hand and never let go. (Since this way of life is called to be Taken in Hand lol)

            Kneeling is natural humbling position, even if he doesn’t agree, your ego will take a natural blow, and your behavior will get better. I hope this helps, and I know this might seem a tad bit extreme, but I like to think that most couples that spank, already have a ritual that involves kneeling. Before and after punishment, that is..

            I’d suggest kneeling in a private moment where you usually have time to talk. And before that to go over all your mistakes in the week (even if in the marriage there had been many more). Mistakes are there to be fixed, and they often mess up the foundation.

            Something Sophia has said before, is that any preferences, you should make them as rules for yourself. He doesn’t like something? It means you must not do something.

            Submission isn’t just obedience and acceptance of a punishment, but also active choices that put him first. I promise that God above will see this, and be very happy with you, and naturally, many blessings will come.

            Much love to you, Unsure.

          2. ALifeSurrendered Avatar
            ALifeSurrendered

            To Unsure,

            I had to reply to myself because I couldn’t reply to you. I wanted to thank you so much for the advice you gave in your reply. I appreciate everything you said.

            You suggested making my husband’s preferences into rules for myself, and I actually started doing that a couple of years ago. His preferences in many regards are adhered to by me, to include keeping my hair long. If there’s something he doesn’t like, I do not do it. I honor him in this way as much as I can, though I’m sure there are times I make mistakes.

            As for kneeling before him when we’re talking, I do that sometimes. I have apologized, sincerely, for things when I have stepped out of line. And he knows I would gladly submit to discipline, at any time, no matter how severe. I have said it directly to him.

            I will continue to share information with him, and see where the road leads.

            Thanks again! ❤️

          3. unsure67 Avatar
            unsure67

            I think the thread is getting too long! I wanna say a few more things, and I occasionally check this site.

            if you ever want to reach out or chat, please don’t shy away, my email is;
            derdocido@gmail.com

          4. Sweet Surrendered! I am so hopeful that your husband’s comment about bruising means that he is thinking deeply about marital discipline and how he might decide to apply it. Continue to patiently support him as he wrestles with something so at odds from everything he’s ever known. Be honest with him, but be careful not to challenge him or attempt to tell him what to do. I’m afraid that saying “I deserve a spanking for that” implies that you know best. You’ve determined what’s best, and worse, it’s in conflict with what your husband has chosen to do. How about this? “I was wrong. I went against your wishes. I’m sorry. I’m ready to accept whatever punishment you decide is appropriate.” Share your contrition and your willingness to be punished, but make it clear that the whether and the how are up to him and him alone. It may be that he needs to begin with non-spanking forms of discipline, judging how he feels about it and how it impacts your behavior. It’s hard, but accepting that he is your leader also means accepting that this is his journey. He must decide how to rule you.

            Having said that, the minute he does impose a consequence, show him how grateful you are and how well you respond to him when he chooses to enforce his authority. Soften to him immediately and tell him how good it makes you feel that he didn’t allow your misbehavior to lead to days of anger and resentment. Thank him for taking swift action to put things right between you. Tell him how much you hope he’ll decide to apply another consequence should you stray again. Not because you decided it was necessary, but because he did. You were simply delighted to discover how comforted you feel when he takes charge. Support him through your renewed softness and submission, not by attempting to lead from the bottom.

            Best wishes to you!

  3. annabee Avatar

    I’ve been following this website for several years now. For quite some time, I’ve been thinking about when it would be best to share a different perspective as well. And maybe right now is a good opportunity.
    I had a strong desire to live my marriage in the way you describe—to be physically corrected by my husband and to live fully in correction and discipline. Honestly, I longed for that, and Aaron’s writings made a lot of sense to me and really attracted me. They resonated with my deepest inner desire, and I didn’t know who around me I could share this longing with.
    When I got married, I married a believing man of strong character and selfless love. Through this marriage, I came to understand an even deeper meaning of the marital relationship, one that includes respect and love. My husband is very conservative. Neither he nor I embrace today’s feminism or similar movements. Both of us view marriage as complementing each other’s qualities, gifts, and abilities, along with tremendous mutual support on this journey through life.
    I realized what the words in Genesis 3 mean, where it says that the woman will desire her husband and he will rule over her. I think the roots of the thinking on this website largely stem from this curse after the Fall into sin. At the same time, I realized that it is possible to live a marriage that reflects the relationship between man and woman as it existed before the Fall. Their relationship could be described more as a brotherly one, even though it was also a partnership. I don’t know if any of the readers of this site can imagine that… but I really wish they could.
    I am experiencing such a marriage. I rely on my husband, I deeply respect him, and he respects and highly values me. We have never argued, and we have never been disrespectful to each other—not even in private, let alone in public. It is enough to express our needs once, and each of us is committed to going out of our way to meet the other—sometimes even beyond expectations, even if we’re tired. We also have patience with each other’s weaknesses. Not everything is ideal like in Paradise, but at the core, we know and trust that both of us are striving for the best. That’s why we don’t need any physical punishments. I see this as a great gift, even though at the beginning of our marriage I definitely wouldn’t have been against CDD. I see in our marriage an even higher level of marital relationship than CDD, where physical punishments must play a role—punishments that sometimes cross boundaries and lead to humiliation, which the partners actually inwardly desire.
    I wanted to share this. It’s not meant as criticism, just as an encouragement to examine more deeply what kind of marital relationship truly pleases the Lord. I pray that everyone can find the true value and the path to a loving marital relationship and the joy of an equality that is different from what this world proclaims, but which is also a gift from God. God bless you.

    1. Hello Annabee, Thank you for your comment. The perspective of this website has never been that it’s impossible to have a decent marriage without spanking. Spanking is a great tool that can help nearly any marriage. However, there may be some couples with a wife who is nearly flawless and does not need correction, and there are also other methods of discipline a man can use besides corporal punishment. I just don’t think that those alternate methods are so good.

      You say here that you are not a feminist, however, you cite a belief that is normal among feminists: that is that Adam and Eve before the fall were merely partners. This is not the case. The man was the head of his wife before the fall, and his wife needed to submit to him before the fall. We know that because of man’s primacy in creation, the fact Eve was made from his flesh, the fact Adam named Eve, and the fact that apostle Paul points to the creation in 1 Timothy 2 in explaining the woman’s submission in the churches. Adam was formed first. The woman was deceived, not Adam. So even if you were to return to before the fall, you’d still need to obey your husband.

      Moreover, we are not before the fall. This can be seen by the fact that the world still has sin in it, and we still have death. We are in the post fall world, and we will not be without sin and death until the very end. 

      I do not know of any women who are flawless and never need correction. I do know that some wives are generally respectful and generally responsible. However, they fail sometimes as well and punishment benefits them. My wife is generally very good, but she benefits from discipline at times. Everyone does. We have laws and punishment in society, for example, even though not everyone needs all of them all the time. We have laws even though many people are mostly law abiding, but even law abiding citizens occasionally get in trouble and get punished for something.

      I’d say that if that’s what your husband has chosen, and it works, there is nothing wrong with that. Go ahead. As long as you are obeying your husband, doing your job, and being respectful to him, that’s most important. However, your husband by virtue of being your husband has a right to punish you when you have earned it. So it should be on the table by virtue of being married, even if he does not believe he needs it. 

      Before you think that a marriage with no discipline is a “higher” kind of relationship, remember that the Bible literally promises chastisement to the Christian. If he is a Christian and is beloved by the Father, the Father will chastise him for wrong. Jesus promises to chastise His people in Revelation and elsewhere. It seems that needing chastisement is totally normal for the Christian, and if it is normal in his walk with Jesus, it will be normal in marriage as well. That chastisement is one way that God sanctifies us. We ought to be grateful for chastisement, and not view it as a “lower” thing than having a nice quiet talk. Punishment is loving and benefits us greatly.

      Take care.

  4. annabee Avatar

    Thank you, Aaron, for publishing my post. I really appreciate it.
    Regarding Adam and Eve, I received teaching from a church that was anything but liberal—quite radical, in fact—where discipline, correction, and daily admonition were also practiced, of course without any corporal punishment. I learned a lot there about submission, and I think this mindset has borne fruit in my marriage too.
    That teaching says it’s no coincidence that woman was created from man’s rib, and not from the bottom of our foot or from the head. A woman should never be above a man in any case, but neither is she inferior to a man.
    Wishing you all the best!

    1. Hello Annabee, It’s my pleasure. As far as the teaching about before the fall, that is feminist, very liberal interpretation, whether it came from a church which appears to be Bible believing or not. Liberals use it all the time. It’s also wrong for the reasons I have pointed out above. Adam was the head of his wife before the fall.

      Verbal instruction and admonition are good things. They should be practiced. I encourage them at this website and elsewhere as well. However, punishment is fair for serious and repeated wrongs. If there were something wrong with punishment, God would not command mankind use it, and God would not use it himself. Punishment is also very effective, and in marriage it plays a role in helping a wife embrace her submission, and acts as a deterrent. A simple talk does not instill the submission in her that a spanking does.

      I don’t find that the observation Eve came from Adam’s rib, and not his foot, changes anything really. What we know from Scripture, both its plain doctrinal teachings and its patterns, is that man and woman are only equal in the sense of being made in the image of God. In authority they are not equal, and the man is above his wife in authority, the wife below her husband. That’s a good thing, as his leadership is important in their marriage and it is important for her. Being led doesn’t make her a “foot,” it just makes her subordinate, which we can also see in Genesis and in the New Testament.

      Christ leads us and He chastises us. The husband, who is compared to Christ and who is lord of his wife, also leads and may chastise her. It is a Christlike thing to do.

      1. unsure67 Avatar
        unsure67

        I don’t think her interpretation is liberal, since it doesn’t go against anything said in the Bible, sure, it’s softened,

        God honors all marriages that follow His design, whether discipline is administered by Him, or by the husband, life naturally makes all of us grow. I’m sure there are plenty of women who have been spanked yet are still hard of heart, even if it might not seem like it, or vice-versa. I’m saying this, not because I am against spanking, since in my own future marriage I’d like my husband to feel free to use his authority however he desires. But I still wanna make it clear that spanking doesn’t make a marriage, it’s just a tool.

        Submission is given to God, through the husband, so even if spanking can help, at the end there needs to be a willingness to submit and serve her husband, which in fact, is embracing submission. Not the other way. I say this, because spankings instill obedience.. which is a part of submission, but not the full scope of it.

        I don’t disagree with any statements about authority, before or after the fall, but I’m sure before the fall the dynamic was a bit different, since curses were put both on man and woman.. and sin entered the world.

        Anyways, last thing, about the rib, I don’t think her observation is entirely wrong, because even if it doesn’t make any difference, God uses plenty of symbolisms, so much that we can find all of them daily! I wouldn’t dismiss her statement so easily.

        This is just my grain of sand.

        1. Hello Unsure, Thanks for your comment. The interpretation is a liberal one because, as she has presented it, the headship of man is denied before the fall. That is the common liberal, feminist interpretation, and just go ahead and speak with some of them about this subject, and you’ll hear it.

          The headship of man before the fall is established, as I’ve mentioned, by a number of things. In Genesis, it is established by the fact man is formed first, and woman came from man. Man names his wife, which is a sign of ownership. Man is held held responsible first for the sin, and woman second, and in the NT it is called the sin of Adam, and not the sin of Eve. We all fall in Adam, because he is the head. The NT also clearly explains woman’s submission through man’s primacy in creation, and the woman’s deception. So this is before the fall, and not after it. 

          It is true that things could have been experienced differently before the fall from after the fall. Of course. With sin in the world, woman would have more desire to rebel against her head, as we see women doing all the time, and man would have the tendency to rule more harshly as a result. Yet it is rebellion and harsher leadership which is attached to the fall, and not headship itself, which clearly was present before the fall.

          The fact that Eve was made from Adam’s rib or side does not change any of that. It’s a cute observation, and contains a nugget of truth, but it doesn’t logically flow that because she was made from a side, that there is no headship. That’s a wildly imaginative reading of it, and it would demand we ignore many other things clearly taught in Scripture. What we know is that man and woman are both made in the image of God, and we know that man is the head, woman is under him. These things are not contrary. This is similar to how Christ is our head, and the Church is His body. The man is the head of the woman, and the woman like his body, who moves following him. 

          Discipline of course comes along with other kinds of guidance, not all by itself. That is how a woman learns. It comes hand in hand with her own commitment and devotion to her husband. It comes together with his verbal guidance and encouragement. However, as a tool, spanking is excellent, and teaches a lesson in ways other forms of correction cannot. A husband doesn’t have to use it, but he should know the option is available, and make sure from the start that it is available in the case he needs to use it. Spanking reaches the soul often much better than a talk does.

          1. Sophia Avatar

            My husband and I return often to this Biblical passage, and we believe you are absolutely correct in your interpretations, Aron. Eve was created only after God determined that Adam needed a companion. Formed of his flesh, rather than the Earth, she was uniquely his possession, meant to please him and serve him from her very first breath. Her wondrous design was born from his desires, a gift to him from the Lord, that he would no longer be lonely. In this way, a woman’s place under her man was defined from the very beginning. There is no evidence of partnership, only a harmony and satisfaction with the roles they had been assigned to one another.

            Together, they were innocent of their nakedness, but also of the existence of sin. It was Eve’s disobedience, her inherent weakness, that brought sin into being, and with it, the necessity of marital discipline. Women will inevitably succumb to the whispers of the snake at some point in their lives (some more often than others, sure), and their men must punish them rather than fall prey to temptation alongside their wives, as Adam shamefully did. It’s not the hierarchy of marriage that was established after the fall, but the need to punish a woman to help her turn away from sin, because she had proved unable to do so on her own. The harshness of punishment may have come after the fall, but not the establishment of a man’s authority over, and responsibility for, the woman God created especially for him.

          2. Thank you for your comment, Sophie. It is important to know how richly the Bible teaches the wife’s submission and belonging to her husband. It extends beyond the clear teachings of the New Testament to wives, being found in the creation itself. It is even brought to culmination in Revelation, with Christ’s final unity with His bride. I’m glad you both find such inspiration in Scripture.

    2. Kruggerand Avatar
      Kruggerand

      Of course, Aron, feel free to not publish this one, but the “which bone” talk reminded me of this:
      https://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/28/gilbert_zevit.php Perhaps the Hebrew word referred originally to the bone taken from the man that he thus no longer has, the baculum.

      1. Hello Kruggerand, Thanks for your comment. I would not take that idea very seriously. The Hebrew word is commonly used to refer either to the side of something, or to a plank in the side of something. So in the creation of Eve, it is fairly translated either Adam’s side or his rib. There is no necessity for his flesh to be generative, but the point is that she is made of his flesh. We may also speculate there is some meaning to being made of his side as well.

        Genesis isn’t just there to explain odd things which people noticed, like the difference between a man and other animals, but to give positive truth, which includes our history, and fundamental spiritual truth which we need. God of course can use whatever piece of Adam he wants, but the normal reading of the word in Scripture, as inspired by the Holy Spirit, is his side or his rib.

        There IS significance in the generative organ if we speak of circumcision. This was started with the patriarch Abraham, but was codified into law with Moses. The meaning of the removal of a small piece of flesh on the organ is multi-fold. It is also a uniquely male rite, and men will be the heads of the people, and will pass down the promised seed. Yet it also seems to signify a certain sacrifice of he flesh, and lessening of the passions. I’m sure entire books have been written on it.

  5. unsure67 Avatar
    unsure67

    Haha, I agree Aron, I just usually push back a bit the narrative on spanking, (nothing against you though), cause I think it’s good to remind people, that marriage is just another service to God, that can be done in multiple different ways, as long as they follow the model He has laid out. Man leads, and woman follows.

    So every marriage might look a little bit different, I’m sure Anabee has a lovely marriage, and so do you

    1. Unsure, you were so kind to offer such lovely advice to Surrendered! You seem so sure in the knowledge of a man’s authority in marriage and are ready to offer sisterly support to the ladies who come here seeking out Aron’s wise counsel on this way of life. But I know you also hold to the idea that discipline may not be necessary in every marriage, and I have doubts as to whether this is true. Women vary, I’m sure, in the frequency and severity of the spankings they require, and I really only have my own experience to draw upon. I just think if a wife is never, ever spanked, has she really felt her man’s authority? And can she really be good, consistently, all the time, without fail? Ever? Spanking seems to be a ritual that, like kneeling, reinforces the power dynamic in a marriage, even if it’s not a regular occurrence. I enjoy reading your posts, always, so please continue to join the conversations here! I just know that I require discipline at my husband’s hand from time to time, and secretly I suspect all women do, once married. Even those who say they don’t are drawn to the idea, and feel an attraction or a fascination that they haven’t given themselves permission to explore. As you’ve said, Unsure, discipline doesn’t make a happy marriage, it just provides the structure that makes it possible.

    2. unsure67 Avatar

      Hmm, I’ll reply with my own thoughts. I don’t work under the assumption that women in marriages that they’re not spanked in, are always good. Nobody is good.

      And then you might say, “Oh, well then they deserve a spanking.”

      Sure, maybe, but that depends on each husband, and what he deems necessary for his bride. In your marriage, if you did a misstep, and your husband didn’t correct you, as he always does, you might feel untethered, since for you it’s not just about punishment, as you’ve mentioned, but something that reinforces the dynamic both you and your husband crave and need.

      I often try and remember that what erases the wrong is not discipline. If you forgot to pay a check, it doesn’t erase that it’s late and you’ve messed up already, and now there might even be a domino effect, especially if finances are tight, for example. You can’t go back in time, no matter how ashamed you might feel or how remorseful. You then feel indebted. You know that your husband has to forgive you for you to feel right again, and connected again.

      But some wives don’t show that remorse, or recognize their wrong. They try and hide it, or lie about it, which worsens the fault, yes?

      It’s forgiven after you’ve honestly shown remorse and a willingness to be better, which is something that everyone can feel and do, but can be shown better after a physical punishment, since it’s a direct blow to the ego, which humbles us. And breaks the barriers that usually limit us.

      But, not everyone has those barriers so high up, which is why, I think, if your husband wronged you, I’d imagine he’d sit down for a talk with you, and give you a sincere apology, showing motivation instead of just sweeping it under the rug.

      And discipline doesn’t just have to be physical, all the time, sometimes people fast, or take away privileges, which work too. Since I’m doing lent (although I only have a few days left) I’ve found that I have way more self control after denying myself things I would indulge in without thinking twice, becoming more mindful about money, clothes, attitudes and thoughts.

      Obviously not taking from the fact that a spanking is effective in other ways. But life shapes everyone in many ways, and a wife can often feel more closely how her husband rules over her, during lovemaking, or when he makes an important decision. I’m not sure any wife when she’s being tearfully hit is thinking.

      And even with spankings, you aren’t good all the time. You’ve mentioned in other texts that spanking is the glue in your marriage, and I’d like to say, that, it bridges the gap with the debt you feel, and the need to be forgiven.

      I think you might have a grain of truth that in modern scene it may be more needed, since husbands don’t have the control or authority they had guaranteed over their women like centuries before. Especially when society reinforced the husband’s authority.

      I often think of Asian countries, not even about marriage, but of how respecting and obeying your parents is expected, and enforced not just by the parents, but by the culture around. So there’s this natural sense of respect.

      Ah, there are so many facets to this topic. I still don’t hold the ideal that we need to have every wrong punished to be forgiven or to reconcile, although it may help, since I often think of Jesus, that forgives us as long as we *repent*, and change our ways. (Doesn’t mean that God doesn’t chastise us, though, or that husband’s shouldn’t, either.)

      But I thought it was relevant to bring up, since husbands are supposed to be the image of Christ, merciful and just all at once, with the church, who in this case would be the wife.

      1. Sophia Avatar

        Unsure, I know you’ve thought deeply about this, preparing for a possible future marriage with a man who you want to be in charge. You will be well-prepared to speak with him about your needs and your questions. But if you are to be a surrendered wife, all of this discussion is really moot. He will be in charge, and you consented to this by marrying him before God. You can suggest to him other ways he might handle the situation, but if he decides to spank you, you will get spanked. You can’t accept the God-given authority of a husband while also telling him when and how and whether he may punish you. A wise and loving husband will come to know you intimately and determine how you are best led, tending to you carefully, yes, just as Christ tends to His Church. Until you’re in his capable hands, it will be hard to determine on your own exactly what type of leadership you may want or need. Prepare yourself for him and be ready to accept his authority.

        Respectfully,
        Sophia

        1. unsure67 Avatar
          unsure67

          Hey Sophie, thank you for your reply!

          I will definitely keep this in mind, but I wasn’t just talking about my own future marriage, since I do think he can handle that however he likes (as I’ve mentioned in previous comments), but rather about all marriages in general, and why they differ, and why I don’t think this kind of discipline is present in all marriages, since that’s what we were originally talking about.

          Just wanted to make this small distinction.

          With love,
          Unsure

          1. Unsure, thank you for your open heart and your contributions to the discussions here! Your eagerness to explore the idea of submission and discipline in your future marriage is rare and should be commended. I pray that God will bless your beautiful soul.

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